Page 1 of 11 
 
Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton 
May 16, 1993 
Cassette 6, Side 1 
 
 
Barbara Wright  00:04 
Okay, we are now on tape two, second part of the interview on May 16, and we're now about 
Carlton still, and we are talking about the marriage. How much did you talk to this commanding 
officer? I mean-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:21 
Quite a bit. Being with the chaplain you get to know all your officer-- your commanding officers, 
and because they, believe it or not, are very particular at those-- in those days, that religion-- the 
people got to their church if they want to go to church, and especially this one, he was very-- 
what's that? [?Insist?] about what we were doing. 
 
Barbara Wright  00:54 
The reception. So tell me what the reception was like. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:56 
Oh, well, as I said, everybody was there. They had a cake, and I still got the topper for that thing. 
See, we weren't doing-- going to do anything like this. We were going-- after the wedding, we 
had planned just to drive to a restaurant. We'd even booked a dinner for us. Well, we did get it 
later, but it was much later. So this was complete-- it put us completely out of what our plans 
were, although the-- this guy that did give me away, he finally told me he knew all about it. They 
had told him, you know. He hadn't even said anything. But anyway, we went in, and here's all of 
this beautiful table, and all these boxes all beautifully covered. So we had-- then pictures was 
taken by the post photographer. So I got a whole book of that they gave us. And then we opened 
gifts, and we had silverware, we had pots and pan-- you-- anything, everything that you could 
think of for starting an apartment, because they knew that we were going to get an apartment or 
someplace to live off-post. Then they had cake and they had drinks there too. Punch, all kinds of 
drinks. Yeah. I can't think that-- then finally-- oh, then I could-- I had to sing at that. They 
wouldn't let me go for them before. 
 
Barbara Wright  02:35 
What'd you sing?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  02:36 
Page 2 of 11 
 
Cover of... Smoke Gets In Your Eyes, that was one. What's that other one? Oh, can't think of it. 
Oh, I'll See You Again. And that was for the whole group, I think they-- because they knew we 
wouldn't be living on post anymore. We'd see each other when we work, but we wouldn't be as 
close, so I had to sing that to them. And then finally, we did get away, and that-- we went-- then 
we went for our dinner. That's right, because we'd only had-- well, they had sandwiches and 
cakes. I mean, just didn't have the cake, they had little novelty things, but I was too excited to 
eat, because I know we went and had a wonderful steak dinner after that. 
 
Barbara Wright  03:34 
Was this a morning wedding or an afternoon wedding? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:36 
10 o'clock on a Saturday morning, first day of May, and this year was Saturday, May 1. And 
that's what we've been trying to figure, how often that comes around. Have you ever had this? 
 
Barbara Wright  03:40 
No. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:41 
This why I'd love to know, how often that comes around, because I can't remember it coming in. 
But this year was on a Saturday. 
 
Barbara Wright  04:02 
Did you guys have a especially big celebration or? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  04:08 
Well, that was just that, you know, the reception, and I said that wasn't even planned. We was 
just gonna have a quiet thing.  
 
Barbara Wright  04:11 
Why did you want a small wedding?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  04:17 
Well, it's-- we'd heard that the post was going to be closed. And, you know, you hate asking 
anybody when they can't come. So this is what we decided, because we had heard that he was 
going to close the post, to clean it up or something. He wasn't satisfied with how clean it was. 
And he'd do this every so often. I mean, it wasn't anything extraordinary. It was just something 
he'd get in his head, that the place needed painted, the curbs needed painted, and the cigarette 
ends had to be picked up, just a regular cleanup job on the post. And this is what we'd been told. 
So we this is why we just had it very quiet. We were going to have it very quiet, but it didn't 
come out that way. But then we went from there, we went to Philadelphia, and we spent the night 
there at a hotel, and from there we went to Greyhound bus. We went from Philadelphia to 
Detroit. That's where his folks stay, and that's where I met him-- first met his family. 
 
Barbara Wright  05:28 
And what was it like meeting the in-laws for first time?  
Page 3 of 11 
 
 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  05:33 
Oh, was something. There was-- his mother died when he was about a year and a half old, so he 
doesn't remember his mother, and he had one sister, and she was there, and six men, one was his 
father and the rest were his uncles. And that's who he'd lived with all his life. So it was great to 
see that bigger family and all these men [laughs]. But we took together, we took fine. He seemed 
pleased when they-- I got along with them real good. Because Dad, he died when David, our 
eldest, was born, he was coming down to see him. He died of a sudden heart attack, so he never 
did see David. And then, the other uncles, I saw them just when we went to visit. We stayed with 
his sister in Sandusky. She lived with her family in Sandusky, Michigan, and we stayed there for 
our honeymoon. 
 
Barbara Wright  05:33 
So how long was this honeymoon trip in all? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  06:37 
Was two weeks, I'm sure that's what it was. Generally, it was-- you'd get-- he got two weeks of 
parole. 
 
Barbara Wright  07:04 
That's quite a bit, two weeks.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  07:06 
Yeah. Well, not really. It was out in the country, we're in the sticks, so he didn't have much to do. 
 
Barbara Wright  07:11 
And then, for my memory, I'm just gonna check my notes here real quickly. Okay, so you guys 
were married in '47 then? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  07:18 
'48. 
 
Barbara Wright  07:19 
'48, okay. And then how long after-- gosh, almost, almost a year after you were married, David 
came along. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  07:28 
Mm-hmm. We had a big joke on that, because we'd always say that we had our-- we were 
married on the first, and David was born on the fifth, not mentioning the years. But, opened up a 
few eyes [laughs]. Because we had a lot, you know, you have a lot of gossip when you get 
people [inaudible]. Oh, she just had to marry him, and that's it [laughs]. We had a little bi-- quite 
a few girls were jealous too, because they were real fond of Chuck. Oh yeah, he knew all the 
WAC gals. 
 
Barbara Wright  08:20 
Page 4 of 11 
 
Was David a planned pregnancy? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  08:22 
No. No, because I wasn't supposed to be able to have babies at all. We had-- Chuck and I had a 
good talk on that, because I'd always been told I wouldn't be able to conceive, let alone carry 
one, and it didn't turn out that way. 
 
Barbara Wright  08:37 
Why did they say that you couldn't have children? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  08:37 
Well, I had troubles when I was growing up, and... So it was a nice surprise when David was 
conceived. And he was born late and he was-- it was 10 months. I carried him for a full 10 
months. 
 
Barbara Wright  09:00 
Wow, bet you-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  09:03 
Yeah, I really had problems with all three of them. 
 
Barbara Wright  09:07 
What sort of pregnancy problems did you have? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  09:09 
Well, I had no trouble at all carrying them, but it was the delivery, and they, none of them 
wanted to be born. They didn't want-- they wanted to-- they were comfortable, I guess, where 
they were. So David was four mon-- 10 months. He was completely formed, nails, everything. 
He even had a tooth. And he was like a year-old when he was delivered. 
 
Barbara Wright  09:34 
How much did he weigh when he was born? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  09:36 
Eight pounds. 
 
Barbara Wright  09:37 
[Whistles] What was he [?like?]?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  09:40 
I-- they took me, and they finally got real worried about it, so they took me in to give me a 
cesarean. And that night, he decided, Oh, well, I've had it long enough, I'll come. But I had 
trouble delivering.  
 
Barbara Wright  09:59 
So how long was the--  
Page 5 of 11 
 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  10:01 
But anyways. The labor? Well, they put me out for a while. I think it was about two hours. I'm 
not sure, it seems to me, because it was a long time. And then they gave up. And then when they 
gave up, that's when he decided to show himself. 
 
Barbara Wright  10:20 
Were you given the option at all of being awake for the delivery? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  10:25 
I just wanted them to do it. Get that baby. I carried him long enough, I was tired of being-- and 
nobody knew I was really pregnant because I didn't-- well, I was only 98 pounds, so I didn't 
really show, except I was a little, you know, firmer around here, and I wore my own clothes the 
whole time. Well, not my army stuff, it was civilian clothes I bought. So I bought them a little bit 
bigger. 
 
Barbara Wright  10:57 
After you were married, now, were you still enlisted in the army? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:01 
When I got married, they-- well, Chuck wanted me out too. He didn't want me in any longer. So 
that was in May, and he talked so much, so in August, I decided to in for discharge.  
 
Barbara Wright  11:21 
Why did he not want you-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:23 
And that's my discharge papers there. Well, he thought I should be home, and then I got 
pregnant, and I had to get out then, because you couldn't stay in. 
 
Barbara Wright  11:35 
Right. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:36 
They didn't even want you to stay in once you got married, either. 
 
Barbara Wright  11:40 
Was there any sort of a specific reason why they wanted women out with-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:44 
That was their rule. Yeah.  
 
Barbara Wright  11:48 
Interesting. How did you feel about being discharged? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:51 
Page 6 of 11 
 
Well, I didn't want to. I was enjoying the service, and I didn't really want to, but I mean, I wanted 
a happy marriage, and I didn't want to start off with arguments, so I got out. And then, as I said, I 
found I was pregnant. I would have gone anyway. It just meant I got out a month or so early. 
 
Barbara Wright  12:16 
Did you ever find out how much you made while in the army? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  12:25 
$52 a month. Because you got all your medical and your food, your lodgings. I mean, that was a-
- so 52 was your spending money. 
 
Barbara Wright  12:27 
That's not bad. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  12:29 
So that's not bad. I mean, in those days, that was a fortune. 
 
Barbara Wright  12:36 
And, also too, last time that you said, like over in Europe, that it was actually almost more 
beneficial to be in the military because everyone else was so highly, you know, rationed. Was it 
the same way in the United States, you almost got more perks being part of the military as part of 
being-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  12:58 
Oh no. I'm ashamed to say it, but the civilians really gave us WACs a hard time. Oh yeah, they-- 
we really got some nasty things thrown at us, and a lot of them, they didn't want to-- when you 
go in certain store-- now, not all stores, now don't get me wrong, but a lot of the stores you go 
and they completely ignore you if you're in uniform. That's why most of us was allowed to put 
on civilian clothes once we left the post. Or, you know, to go out if we were going off-post, we 
were allowed to put civilian clothes on because they didn't want any part of it. We were just 
trash. We were only in the army for a certain reason. 
 
Barbara Wright  13:43 
I see. So the insinuation was definitely that-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  13:49 
Oh, it was terrible when we first came home.  
 
Barbara Wright  13:51 
Really? Was the insinuation definitely that you guys were prostitutes, or? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  13:57 
Yeah, that was even said to us. Yes. See, I ignored it, though. I'm one-- I don't listen to people 
like that. I knew what I was in there for. I knew what I did, and I was conscious-free. I never 
once did anything against my God or anything. I knew myself, what I was, so I always figured, 
that's all right, you go ahead. You're not hurting me. The good Lord knows what I am, and my 
Page 7 of 11 
 
true friends knew what I was. So it never bothered, but it did bother a lot of the women. Really 
did. Some really nice girls got really hurt, and then some-- I know, one started drinking and got 
herself in trouble, and she was too [?naive?]. And it was all through that, she'd come home, she'd 
been in Europe, and maybe not as far-- Oh, I guess she did. I don't know if she was in my group 
or not. Well, they worked hard over there and then to come home and have your own people talk 
to you like that. And you know, some people can't take it. And she was just a young girl. She 
was in her early 20s, because her mother had signed for her to go before she was 21. I think she 
was eighteen, like that? And her mother had signed her because she wanted to do something so 
bad, so she was in her early 20s. 
 
Barbara Wright  15:36 
It's a hard time anyway, you got to figure it out yourself. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  15:41 
Yeah, because you've got to kind of get back into the way of the civilians. I mean, it's a different 
life, you know, altogether. She'd been away from it for a while, a few years. I can understand 
what happened to her. We tried to help her, but just didn't work. 
 
Barbara Wright  16:06 
What sort of name specifically would they call you? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  16:09 
Prostitute.  
 
Barbara Wright  16:10 
Really? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  16:11 
Oh yeah.  
 
Barbara Wright  16:11 
They-- would they basically say the prostitute, or would they say like, whore, or anything? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  16:16 
No. Just... And now you, you know, you just been there just to get a man and get married, and 
we've had that thrown at us. When did you catch him? Did you get him? But that's not 
everybody, but it just-- a few that stood out. And then you go into another store and you couldn't 
get treated better. And if you were in uniform, you get real treated, you know, you treated real 
well, get something cheaper, something like-- you know, it just depended. Now, at that Diamond 
Jim,  we were treated like royalty. 
 
Barbara Wright  16:57 
Yeah. Would you usually be the only military personnel in there, or? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  17:02 
Page 8 of 11 
 
Jill, best friend of mine, Spencer, and myself, used to go there. And it just happened that we went 
up there one weekend. Oh, there was another girl with us, too. And the three of us, we went to-- 
we had a Radio City. We had tickets for that and we went there, and we came out, and we saw-- 
walking around. We saw this big light said, Diamond Jim. I said, Boy, that sounds interesting. 
Why don't we try and see if we can get in there? And we all, they have money, you know, to 
explore. So we went in the door, and my goodness, they opened this guy, you know, stands 
outside, what they call him? In uniform, and they open the door and ushered us in. So good to 
have you, come on in. And then there was the head waiter, or-- that's not what they call him. 
 
Barbara Wright  17:59 
Maître d'? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  17:59 
Maître d'. He came right forward, took her hand, shook her hands, and asked us what we'd like, 
and we said, Would it possible to get a meal here? Well, of course! So we fit right in the front 
row, where the stage is and the band was playing, you know, it was lovely. And then we'd 
finished our meal, we're waiting around-- oh, and then they brought a special champagne, and 
they said, This is on the house, the champagne. Well, I'll be-- we were splurged, I don't what-- 
what we did ate, but I know it was 'bout the best that was on the menu. And I don't think there's 
any prices on it, now come to think of it. No, I don't think there's any prices on it, because 
generally those big restaurants, they don't put prices. Anyway we ate. We had a, oh, delicious 
meal, and the best attendants, and the show. So then we called for our check, and, Oh, no, no, 
this is on us. We didn't pay a penny. 
 
Barbara Wright  19:11 
Oh wow. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  19:13 
So we went up-- not that we wanted a free meal, you know, because we always offered to pay, 
but every time we went in there, they gave us a free meal if we were in uniform. Although one 
time we went up, Spence and I, and we went up into the [inaudible], and they still recognized us. 
 
Barbara Wright  19:34 
How many times did you go there? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  19:37 
As often as we could. I don't really know. About every two weeks, three weeks, something like 
that? And if the chaplain let me away for the weekend. Or even after-- after the first service, we 
could go on up, take the bus. 
 
Barbara Wright  20:01 
You mentioned that military life is very different from civilian life. How was-- how is it 
different? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  20:07 
Page 9 of 11 
 
I don't know, but it is. You'd have to be in it yourself to really know. But you talk to any military 
person that's been in for a long period of time, and they'll tell you it's so hard to get from there to 
the civilian. 
 
Barbara Wright  20:24 
Hmm. Interesting. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  20:25 
It really is. It's a family all on its own. Everybody helps-- now I'm talking about when I was in 
and up to a few years ago. I-- they tell me it's not like that anymore, and it's a shame. But I know 
that you're just one family, and you all look out for each other, and you help each other, but I 
think they still do, maybe not to the extent that we did. I'm sure they still do. Army looks after its 
own. Always say that, always will. 
 
Barbara Wright  20:59 
It's a hard lifestyle. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  21:00 
Yeah. 
 
Barbara Wright  21:01 
Especially now. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  21:01 
The moving around is what gets you. Especially if you've got a family, although it's better than 
being parted.  
 
Barbara Wright  21:10 
Very true.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  21:11 
See, I enjoyed the traveling, so that didn't-- never bothered me. I enjoy meeting people and then-- 
because when I was overseas, that's what I had to do too. When we-- after we got married, they 
were sent to England for four years. We left-- let me see. I went up to live. We had bought a 
house in New Jersey, and he got orders. We hadn't even been in it a year. He got orders to go to 
England for three years, so we had to sell it. Oh no, we rented it. That's right, we rent it. And I 
went to stay with his-- because I couldn't go with him. The Korea War was just started, and that 
was in the '50s. And they wouldn't let the families-- the dependents, travel at that time, they were 
kind of nervous. You know, it was a war going-- starting up, so they didn't want for us to be 
stuck anywhere. So David and I-- David had been born, and we went to live with Mamie, 
Chuck's sister out in Sandusky. And I was there for about four months-- five months, and then I 
got my orders to go off over there in England. So we took a Pullman from Detroit to New York, 
and from there we got on the ship to take us to England.  
 
Barbara Wright  22:57 
And where did you live in England? 
Page 10 of 11 
 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  22:59 
I lived in Bosworth, I think was the first place. And then we went to a place called Upper 
Heyford and Molesworth. And then we had two of our children born over there. So they had dual 
citizenship until they became 21. George was the first. He was born in January 2, '40-- no, '50. 
 
Barbara Wright  23:37 
'51, I have it. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  23:37 
'51, okay, '51. Yeah, because David was born, there's 13 months-- no, 18 months difference 
between them. Then, Judy was born February 18, 1952. Then he-- our three years was up, and 
they told him he had to serve another year. So we stayed over there. David started school 
because there they start at four years old. So David was in English school for a year. Then in '54, 
we finally got to come home. We were here for eight-- well, '50-- now where did we go? Mineral 
Wells, Texas. The hottest day we had in England was 84 degrees. Everybody was dying off. It 
just was so extraordinary for him when he gets [inaudible] back up. We came back, they put his 
travel to Killeen, Texas, and it was 112 in the shade. And our place where we were to live, wasn't 
ready. They made us stay outside, and I thought, Oh, we'll never get through this. We had 
brought a golden Cocker-- English golden Cocker with us, and he just lay on his back and threw 
up his legs, gave up, and we thought we'd lost-- because Chuck had taken charge of him on the 
ship. He was not to [inaudible]  all the time. And we thought we'd lost him. He did survive. Then 
finally, we get into the house that we were supposed to be in. And we stayed there to '56. And he 
got orders again. So, that's a lot. What does it-- '54? '55, he got orders to go to Louisiana. So we 
packed up again, in fact, some of the boxes I hadn't even unpacked, and we moved from-- to 
Louisiana, Alexander. And we stayed there until the '56 and he got orders to go to Germany. And 
we went with-- did we go with him? No. No, he went by himself too. I can't remember. I know 
he did. Anyway, we got to Frankfurt-- or Heidelberg, Germany, and we stayed there until '58. 
We were almost two and a half years overseas-- was sometime that Chuck had had a seizure of 
some kind. They thought it was a heart attack, and they flew him home on emergency. But come 
to find, when he got home-- was sent-- flown to Chicago, and they found it was an asthma-- very 
bad asthma attack he had. So the children and I, and his company, he was the first sergeant, and 
his company was so good to the kids and I, they got the apartment all cleaned up, and of course, 
the packers did all the packing of what we could bring home. We had a young lieutenant with us 
that was assigned to the children and I, and he was responsible to get us from Heidelberg to 
Frankfurt Airport. We got on the plane there, and we flew from there to New York, and then he 
made sure that he turned us over to the Red Cross when we got home. And then we had friends 
living-- in fact, the couple that we had lived with when we first got married, we lived in-- had a 
bedroom and the use of the house, with them, and we'd always corresponding with-- 
corresponded with them the whole time we left there. So when they heard we were coming back, 
they volunteered to come and get me from-- get the children and I. So we stayed with them for a 
week-- 
 
Barbara Wright  28:42 
And this was in New Jersey? 
 
Page 11 of 11 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  28:43 
This was in New Jersey, uh-huh. 
 
Barbara Wright  28:44 
Okay. In Fort Dix, or? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  28:46 
No, it was outside. A civilian home, yeah. Well, it would be Camp, yeah, Camp Kilmer, yeah, it 
would be close to that. And then from there, we... Oh, yeah, one of his uncles came down, 
because we brought a-- bought a new car too, and it was in Hamilton, waiting for us to pick it up. 
 
Barbara Wright  29:14 
Hamilton, New Jersey or? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  29:16 
New York, yeah. And so, his uncle came down so he could drive us, because I still didn't have a 
American license. I had a British one-- or a German one, I guess. Yeah, I had a German license. 
So he came down and drove us up to his sister-- No, we went to Detroit and stayed with his 
uncles, and that's where we stayed in Detroit again. Until we got word that-- and then he got out 
of the hospital. 
 
Barbara Wright  29:54 
And he was in the hospital for how long?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  29:56 
He was in hospital all this time. And-- they finally let me go. They got me transportation. I went 
to see him one day, and then I didn't see him again until we got to-- No. Then he came home in 
Detroit, and he came to his uncle's place, that's where we were staying, and from there, we drove 
to Fort Worth, Texas. 
 
Barbara Wright  30:26 
Okay. We're going to switch the tape now. 